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It`s Okay To Be Smart, Can Life Really Be Explained By Physics? (featuring Prof. Brian Cox) (1)

Can Life Really Be Explained By Physics? (featuring Prof. Brian Cox) (1)

Thank you to Policygenius for supporting PBS.

I think that life is the most fascinating, naturallyoccurring phenomenon in the universe,

and I think that's uncontroversial. I mean clearly, the human brain is the

most complex structure that we know of. It is a product of the laws of nature,

but we are a long way from understanding how that produces the experience of living right. And so

really, if you wanna ask what's the meaning of life, then first of all, we need to understand

life, and secondly, we understand consciousness 'cause meaning emerges from consciousness.

I think it's a little unfair that everything sounds so much better with your accent as you

explain things about the origin of the universe and origin of life. It's a little unfair.

So, are you saying that it's not the

inherent poetry in my construction of sentences or the conveying of ideas, it's just the accent?

60/40, we'll call it 60/40. We'll go with that.

60/40, I'll take that.

I recently sat down with Science Communicator,

Brian Cox. Now, he's a physicist, but our conversation didn't focus on the Big Bang, or

alien worlds, the strangeness of black holes, or any of that stuff. We talked about what it means

to be alive. Now, life is one of those things where... well, you know it when you see it, right?

But what is it exactly, that makes me different from a rock?

So maybe by looking to physics and asking some questions about the fundamental rules of the

universe, we can understand the meaning of life. Like literally. Really, really?

Hey smart people, Joe here. Y'all might know this already, but I'm a biologist, a doctor of

the biological sciences to be exact. So why would I need to call up a physicist to talk about life?

Well, next to why are we here? And where is here? What is life? Is one of the biggest questions out

there. And it's one that people have asked in various ways since people have existed.

But in every era before today, it's typically involved a supernatural answer. It's a very

new idea, just in the past couple of centuries, to look only to nature for the answer instead.

And one of the things that inspired this change in perspective was the dawn of modern physics. Every

living thing that has ever existed is a product of the universe. And every process in the universe,

from the swirling of the galaxy to the fusion that makes stars shine, to well,

life, they all have one thing in common. They all have to follow the laws of physics. If you look in

a textbook, you get to some paragraph that lists life as like several attributes. Stuff like, it's

organized into cells or that it can grow. That it can reproduce, that it uses energy. So you sort of

get this like checklist of what is life. Then I noticed the longer that you study, you start to

realize that there are exceptions to these things. I mean a crystal can grow and replicate itself.

Soap bubbles have very particular cellular order. The ocean,

just the water and the chemicals dissolved in it can maintain homeostasis and pH

and stability. Just consider a simple flame. It can reproduce, it uses energy. It can grow

and even form complex structures, but you probably wouldn't argue that a candle is alive.

As you said, biology, that's what I've learned when talking to biologists,

that is the science of exceptions, isn't it?

And so it makes me think that what we learn in school about what is life is

totally insufficient for really describing what it actually is.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I'm surprised and curious, why a physicist would be so interested in questions about life.

I think, ultimately, cosmology, so what I do, astronomy, you know, those subjects. They raise

profound questions. The first question I get when I talk about size and scale of the universe from

people, from audiences is, "What does it all mean? What am I to take from these things that

you are saying?" And that word, meaning, doesn't sound like a scientific term. But clearly that

meaning exists in the universe, 'cause it means something to us. Our great hero, Carl Sagan

said, I remember there was a great celebration of our civilization on Cosmos.

And he showed that the arts and the music and the architecture, and at the end of it, he said,

These are some of the things that hydrogen atoms do given 15 billion years of cosmic evolution.

But in any case, that's true, isn't it? It's true. Long answer to a short question is that I think

that life is absolutely fundamental to understanding the universe.

So, let's look at life through Carl Sagan's perspective, as atoms doing interesting things,

and see what we can learn. This view of life as very interesting physics

actually goes back to the physicist, Erwin Schrödinger. In 1944 he published this book,

"What Is Life?" Schrodinger asked, if we look at life down at its most basic units,

very small things like atoms, maybe we can use physics and mathematics to describe how big

bunches of those atoms can form complex things like you and me. This was a very

different approach versus someone like Charles Darwin, who viewed the world through an animal or

ecosystem sized lens. My conversation with Brian touched on a few ideas from physics that together,

can help us understand what makes life different from the other, less interesting atoms in the

universe. Energy is the first big thing that is required for living things to do what they do. So,

what is a useful definition for energy in terms of how it can help us understand life?

I mean energy is, it's notoriously, I mean we can define it mathematically and say,

kinetic energy is half mv squared, and things like that. If you go to relativity, by the way,

then you end up saying, it's the component of the four vector that points in the time direction.

It's a thing that's conserved. That's why it's useful in physics. It's not created or destroyed.

This is a deeply strange truth about the universe.

From the Big Bang to today, all of the energy that ever was is still out there. This energy

can change from one form to another, but all there is all there is. And since the beginning of time,

that energy has been getting more disordered along with the whole universe.

If you imagine a cup of coffee and you delicately put the cream on top of the cup of coffee,

so that's an ordered system. So, we have created order. The cream's on the top and the coffee's

underneath. And then if you sit there and maybe you give it a little stir just to give it a kick,

and it mixes up so it becomes more disordered.

But in the process, you get complex structures, swells in the cream, swells in the coffee.

So, a pattern emerges spontaneously on the road from order to disorder.

These patterns can be so complex that no other coffee and milk in the universe is exactly

like this one. But eventually as time goes on, we end up in a state of maximum disorder. A

perfectly boring cup of coffee. And the universe has been doing basically this.

The universe started off in a highly ordered way at the Big Bang, and it's on its way to a

more disordered and increasingly boring state. The heat death at the end of the universe. This is all

described by the second law of thermodynamics. The universe, as in, the whole entire universe

is evolving towards increasing entropy, aka more disorder. So what does this have to do with life?

And in the process, there can be swells in the coffee, and in that sense we're swells

in the coffee. So, we're almost like an inevitable consequence of the march from order to disorder.

I think maybe the basic understanding that most people have about complexity in the universe is

that it's supposed to run the other direction. It's supposed to be the things don't get more

interesting and complex. They get more or disordered. So is life breaking the rules?

No, you can have local complexity emerge. So, in the language of thermodynamics, it's a reduction

in entropy, so things can get more ordered, as long as you pay the price in the environment. So

the environment has to get less ordered. That's why your refrigerator works. A refrigerator,

how do you cool the inside? That's making order inside. You can see that, when you put water into

it, it turns into ice crystals. So by cooling it down, you're allowing this complexity to

emerge. But how you do that? Well, you've got a big heater on the back. So, the key part of

the refrigerator is not something to do with the inside. It's the big heating element on the back,

which is throwing disorder out into your kitchen. And where does it get the energy

to do that come from? It comes from a power station, which might be burning fossil fuel,

or it might be nuclear power, whatever it is. But you can trace it back. Now you might say,

and you're probably gonna say, "Well, okay then, but where does the original order come from?"

And it's a very good question, it's the Big Bang. So ultimately, the profound question

is why was the universe born with a reservoir? You can think of it as a reservoir of order which can

unravel over billions of years and allow complex structures to exist in the process of unraveling.

Our Sun, like every other star in the universe, is a tiny pocket of complexity and order

in a universe becoming more disordered. What stars do basically, is take a bit of

that original order from the beginning of the universe, and hold on to it for a while, slowly

giving it up over billions of years, in a more disordered form. Energy in the form of sunlight.

You probably know that all life on Earth today gets its energy from the Sun, whether directly

through photosynthesis, or indirectly, by eating things that do photosynthesis,

or eating the things that eat the things that do photosynthesis.

But ultimately it's the Sun, our little clump of order in an increasingly disordered cosmos,

that's basically the furnace powering the steam engine of life. So we're still tapping

this reservoir from the very first moments of the universe and using it to do interesting things.

Yeah, so it's a good approximation. Now, the Earth radiates as much energy out into space as

it receives from the Sun. 'Cause if it didn't, it just heats up. But essentially what life is doing

is sitting in that cascade of energy.

And it's just siphoning a bit of order off from the sunlight.

This is a really important and kind of mind-blowing point. When it comes to order and

entropy, not all energy is created equal. Earth absorbs as much sunlight energy as it gives off

in the form of infrared radiation energy. But that infrared radiation energy has more disorder than

the original sunlight. When a leaf absorbs visible light from the Sun, it grabs a bit of that order,

it uses this order to do interesting things like split water into hydrogen and oxygen,

and to make sugars, then it pays the universe back for the order that it borrowed by releasing

infrared radiation. The Sun isn't just a source of energy. It's a source of

order. When cells borrow that ordered energy and turn it into things like

DNA and ATP, we send back what we owe as less ordered energy in the form of heat.

But it is true that as you sit there, you're actually hastening the demise of the universe,

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Can Life Really Be Explained By Physics? (featuring Prof. Brian Cox) (1) ||||||||Професор||Кокс ¿Puede la física explicar la vida? (con el profesor Brian Cox) (1)

Thank you to Policygenius for supporting PBS. |||Policygenius||| |||Політика геній||| Obrigado ao Policygenius por apoiar a PBS.

I think that life is the most fascinating,  naturallyoccurring phenomenon in the universe, ||||||||que ocorre naturalmente|||| ||||||||природне явище||||

and I think that's uncontroversial. I  mean clearly, the human brain is the ||||incontestável||ou seja|claramente||||| ||||не суперечливий||||||||

most complex structure that we know of.  It is a product of the laws of nature,

but we are a long way from understanding how that  produces the experience of living right. And so

really, if you wanna ask what's the meaning of  life, then first of all, we need to understand ||||perguntar|||significado|||então|||||||

life, and secondly, we understand consciousness  'cause meaning emerges from consciousness. |||||consciência|||surge|| |||||свідомість|||||

I think it's a little unfair that everything  sounds so much better with your accent as you |||||injusto|||soa||||||sotaque||

explain things about the origin of the universe  and origin of life. It's a little unfair. |||||||||||||||injusto |||||||||||||||несправедливо

So, are you saying that it's not the

inherent poetry in my construction of sentences  or the conveying of ideas, it's just the accent? |||||||||conveying|||||| ||||конструкції||поезія речень|||передача|||||| inata|poesia||||||||transmissão||ideias||||o acento

60/40, we'll call it 60/40. We'll go with that.

60/40, I'll take that. ||це

I recently sat down with Science Communicator, ||сів||||

Brian Cox. Now, he's a physicist, but our  conversation didn't focus on the Big Bang, or |Cox||||físico teórico||||||||||

alien worlds, the strangeness of black holes, or  any of that stuff. We talked about what it means |||дивність|||||||||||||| extraterrestre|||estranheza||||||||||falamos sobre|sobre|||

to be alive. Now, life is one of those things  where... well, you know it when you see it, right?

But what is it exactly, that  makes me different from a rock?

So maybe by looking to physics and asking some  questions about the fundamental rules of the

universe, we can understand the meaning  of life. Like literally. Really, really?

Hey smart people, Joe here. Y'all might know  this already, but I'm a biologist, a doctor of ||люди|||Ви всі||||||||||| |inteligentes||||vocês|podem|||já||||biólogo|||

the biological sciences to be exact. So why would  I need to call up a physicist to talk about life? ||||||||deveria||||consultar|||físico teórico||||

Well, next to why are we here? And where is here?  What is life? Is one of the biggest questions out |próxima|||||||||||||||||||

there. And it's one that people have asked  in various ways since people have existed.

But in every era before today, it's typically  involved a supernatural answer. It's a very |||||||tipicamente|envolvia uma|||resposta sobrenatural|||

new idea, just in the past couple of centuries,  to look only to nature for the answer instead. ||||||alguns séculos||séculos||||||||resposta natural|em vez de

And one of the things that inspired this change in  perspective was the dawn of modern physics. Every |||||||||||||o alvorecer||||

living thing that has ever existed is a product of  the universe. And every process in the universe, |||||||||||||||||universo

from the swirling of the galaxy to the  fusion that makes stars shine, to well, |a|girando|||||||||as estrelas|brilham estrelas||

life, they all have one thing in common. They all  have to follow the laws of physics. If you look in |||||||em comum|||||||as leis||física||||

a textbook, you get to some paragraph that lists  life as like several attributes. Stuff like, it's ||||||параграф|||||||||| |livro didático||||||||||como|vários|atributos de vida|coisas como||

organized into cells or that it can grow. That it  can reproduce, that it uses energy. So you sort of ||células|||||||||reproduzir-se|||||||tipo de|

get this like checklist of what is life. Then I  noticed the longer that you study, you start to |||lista de verificação||||a vida|||percebi||mais tempo|||estuda||começa a|

realize that there are exceptions to these things.  I mean a crystal can grow and replicate itself. perceber||||exceções|||||ou seja||cristal|||||

Soap bubbles have very particular  cellular order. The ocean, |bolhas de sabão|||particularidade específica|celular|ordem celular||o oceano

just the water and the chemicals dissolved  in it can maintain homeostasis and pH ||||||розчинені|||||гомеостазу|| ||a água|||os produtos químicos|dissolvidos na||||manter|||

and stability. Just consider a simple flame.  It can reproduce, it uses energy. It can grow |estabilidade||considere||simples|chama|||||||||crescer

and even form complex structures, but you  probably wouldn't argue that a candle is alive. ||forma|||||||discutiria que|||vela||viva

As you said, biology, that's what I've  learned when talking to biologists, |||biologia||||||||

that is the science of exceptions, isn't it?

And so it makes me think that what we  learn in school about what is life is

totally insufficient for really  describing what it actually is. |insuficiente para|||||||

Yeah, absolutely.

So I'm surprised and curious, why a physicist  would be so interested in questions about life. |||||||||||interessado nas||as questões|sobre|a vida

I think, ultimately, cosmology, so what I do,  astronomy, you know, those subjects. They raise |||космологія||||||||||| ||em última análise|cosmologia|||||||||||levantam questões

profound questions. The first question I get when  I talk about size and scale of the universe from profundas|||||||||||||||||

people, from audiences is, "What does it all  mean? What am I to take from these things that |||||||||||||levar|||| ||аудиторії|||||||||||||||

you are saying?" And that word, meaning, doesn't  sound like a scientific term. But clearly that

meaning exists in the universe, 'cause it means  something to us. Our great hero, Carl Sagan |||||||||||||герой людства|| ||||universo|causa||||||||||

said, I remember there was a great  celebration of our civilization on Cosmos. ||lembro||||grande||||civilização||o cosmos

And he showed that the arts and the music and  the architecture, and at the end of it, he said, ||mostrou|||as artes||||||a arquitetura||||||||

These are some of the things that hydrogen atoms  do given 15 billion years of cosmic evolution. |||||||hidrogênio|os átomos||dada|bilhões||||evolução cósm

But in any case, that's true, isn't it? It's true.  Long answer to a short question is that I think ||||||||||longa|||||pergunta||||acho que

that life is absolutely fundamental  to understanding the universe.

So, let's look at life through Carl Sagan's  perspective, as atoms doing interesting things, |||||através de||||||||

and see what we can learn. This view  of life as very interesting physics |||||aprender||perspectiva||||||

actually goes back to the physicist, Erwin  Schrödinger. In 1944 he published this book, ||||||||||||livro

"What Is Life?" Schrodinger asked, if we  look at life down at its most basic units, |||Шредінгер||||||||||||

very small things like atoms, maybe we can use  physics and mathematics to describe how big |pequenas|||átomos|talvez||||||matemática||descrever como são||grandeza relativa

bunches of those atoms can form complex  things like you and me. This was a very grupos|||||||||||eu||||

different approach versus someone like Charles  Darwin, who viewed the world through an animal or |abordagem diferente|versus||||||via animal||||||

ecosystem sized lens. My conversation with Brian  touched on a few ideas from physics that together, |tamanho do ecoss|lente do ecoss|||||||||||||

can help us understand what makes life different  from the other, less interesting atoms in the |ajuda a|||||a vida||||os outros|menos interessantes||||

universe. Energy is the first big thing that is  required for living things to do what they do. So, |||||||||necessária|||||||||

what is a useful definition for energy in  terms of how it can help us understand life? |||útil|definição útil||||||||||||a vida

I mean energy is, it's notoriously, I mean  we can define it mathematically and say, |||||notoriamente||quer dizer|||||||

kinetic energy is half mv squared, and things  like that. If you go to relativity, by the way, cinética|||||elevado ao quadrado|||||||||relatividade|||

then you end up saying, it's the component of the  four vector that points in the time direction. |||||||||||vetor quádruplo||indica||||direção do tempo |||||||||||вектор||||||

It's a thing that's conserved. That's why it's  useful in physics. It's not created or destroyed. |||||||||||||||destruído ||||збережена величина|||||||||||знищено

This is a deeply strange truth about the universe. |||profundamente||verdade estranha|||

From the Big Bang to today, all of the energy  that ever was is still out there. This energy |||||||||||alguma vez||||fora|||

can change from one form to another, but all there  is all there is. And since the beginning of time, |||||||||aí||||||desde||o início||

that energy has been getting more  disordered along with the whole universe. ||||||desordenada|junto com|||todo o| ||||||дисordered|||||

If you imagine a cup of coffee and you delicately  put the cream on top of the cup of coffee, ||||copo||uma xícara de café||||||creme|||||||

so that's an ordered system. So, we have created  order. The cream's on the top and the coffee's |||||||||||o creme|||||| |||||||||||вершки||||||кава

underneath. And then if you sit there and maybe  you give it a little stir just to give it a kick, ||||||||||||||помішати|||||| embaixo||||||||talvez||||||uma mexida|apenas|||||um impulso

and it mixes up so it becomes more disordered. ||||||torna-se|mais|desordenado

But in the process, you get complex structures,  swells in the cream, swells in the coffee. ||||||||espumas|||creme|espumas|||

So, a pattern emerges spontaneously  on the road from order to disorder. ||um padrão|||||caminho||||

These patterns can be so complex that no other  coffee and milk in the universe is exactly

like this one. But eventually as time goes on,  we end up in a state of maximum disorder. A

perfectly boring cup of coffee. And the  universe has been doing basically this.

The universe started off in a highly ordered  way at the Big Bang, and it's on its way to a |||||||||||||||||caminho||

more disordered and increasingly boring state. The  heat death at the end of the universe. This is all |||cada vez mais||||calor||||final do||||||

described by the second law of thermodynamics.  The universe, as in, the whole entire universe descrito pela||||lei||termodinâmica||||||todo|todo o|

is evolving towards increasing entropy, aka more  disorder. So what does this have to do with life? ||em direção a|aumentando a|entropia crescente||mais desordem||||||a ver||||vida

And in the process, there can be swells in  the coffee, and in that sense we're swells |||processo|aí|||ondas|||||||||aumentos

in the coffee. So, we're almost like an inevitable  consequence of the march from order to disorder. ||||||||||||movement|||| |||||||||наслідок||||||| |||||quase|||inevitável consequência|consequência inevitável|||avanço||||

I think maybe the basic understanding that most  people have about complexity in the universe is |||||||||||complexidade do universo||||

that it's supposed to run the other direction.  It's supposed to be the things don't get more ||suposto|||||direção oposta|||||||||

interesting and complex. They get more or  disordered. So is life breaking the rules? |||||||||||quebrando||as regras

No, you can have local complexity emerge. So, in  the language of thermodynamics, it's a reduction |||||complexidade local|emergir||||linguagem da|||||

in entropy, so things can get more ordered, as  long as you pay the price in the environment. So |entropia(1)||||||||||||||||meio ambiente|

the environment has to get less ordered. That's  why your refrigerator works. A refrigerator, ||||||||||geladeira|||geladeira ||||||||||холодильник|||

how do you cool the inside? That's making order  inside. You can see that, when you put water into |||esfria||||||interior|||||||||

it, it turns into ice crystals. So by cooling  it down, you're allowing this complexity to ||||gelo|cristais de gelo|||resfriando-o||||permitindo|||

emerge. But how you do that? Well, you've got  a big heater on the back. So, the key part of |||||||||||aquecedor|||||||| |||||||||||обігрівач||||||||

the refrigerator is not something to do with the  inside. It's the big heating element on the back, |||||||||||||aquecimento||||a parte de trás |||||||||||||обігрівальний елемент||||

which is throwing disorder out into your  kitchen. And where does it get the energy ||lançando desordem||||||||||||

to do that come from? It comes from a power  station, which might be burning fossil fuel, |||||||||central elétrica|||||queima de||combustível fóssil

or it might be nuclear power, whatever it is.  But you can trace it back. Now you might say, ||||||seja o que for||||||rastrear||||||

and you're probably gonna say, "Well, okay then,  but where does the original order come from?"

And it's a very good question, it's the Big  Bang. So ultimately, the profound question

is why was the universe born with a reservoir? You  can think of it as a reservoir of order which can ||||||||reservatório de ordem|||||||||||| |чому|||||||||||||||резервуар||||

unravel over billions of years and allow complex  structures to exist in the process of unraveling. desdobrar-se|||||||||||||||desdobramento розгортатися|||||||||||||||

Our Sun, like every other star in the universe,  is a tiny pocket of complexity and order |||||||||||pequena|bolha||||

in a universe becoming more disordered.  What stars do basically, is take a bit of |||||desordenado|||||||||

that original order from the beginning of the  universe, and hold on to it for a while, slowly

giving it up over billions of years, in a more  disordered form. Energy in the form of sunlight. |||||||||||||||||luz solar

You probably know that all life on Earth today  gets its energy from the Sun, whether directly |||||||||||||||diretamente|diretamente

through photosynthesis, or indirectly,  by eating things that do photosynthesis, |||непрямо|||||| por meio de|||||||||

or eating the things that eat the  things that do photosynthesis.

But ultimately it's the Sun, our little clump  of order in an increasingly disordered cosmos, |||||||aglomerado de ordem|||||cada vez mais|| |||||||група|||||||

that's basically the furnace powering the  steam engine of life. So we're still tapping |||fornalha|movendo||vapor|motor a vapor||||||extraindo energia |||піч|||пар|||||||

this reservoir from the very first moments of the  universe and using it to do interesting things.

Yeah, so it's a good approximation. Now, the  Earth radiates as much energy out into space as |||||||||випромінює|||||||

it receives from the Sun. 'Cause if it didn't, it  just heats up. But essentially what life is doing |||||||||||нагрівається|||||||

is sitting in that cascade of energy. ||||cascade|| ||||каскаді|| |está sentado|||cascata||

And it's just siphoning a bit  of order off from the sunlight. |||sugando|||||||| |||відбирає частину||||||||

This is a really important and kind of  mind-blowing point. When it comes to order and ||||||||surpreendente|surpreendente|||||||

entropy, not all energy is created equal. Earth  absorbs as much sunlight energy as it gives off

in the form of infrared radiation energy. But that  infrared radiation energy has more disorder than ||||infravermelha|||||||||||

the original sunlight. When a leaf absorbs visible  light from the Sun, it grabs a bit of that order, |||||folha||||||||captura|||||

it uses this order to do interesting things  like split water into hydrogen and oxygen, |||||||||dividirá|||||

and to make sugars, then it pays the universe  back for the order that it borrowed by releasing |||açúcares||||||||||||emprestou||liberando

infrared radiation. The Sun isn't just  a source of energy. It's a source of radiação infravermelha|||||||||||||

order. When cells borrow that ordered  energy and turn it into things like |||pegam emprestado||||||||| |||позичати|||||||||

DNA and ATP, we send back what we owe as  less ordered energy in the form of heat. |||||||||||упорядкований|||||| ||||||||devemos|||||||||

But it is true that as you sit there, you're  actually hastening the demise of the universe, |||||||||||apressando||fim último||| |||||||||||прискорюючи|||||