#242 Mark & Steve – Seal Hunt ||Caza de focas| #242 Mark & Steve - Robbenjagd #242 Mark & Steve – Caza de focas #242位 マーク＆スティーブ - アザラシハント #242 Mark & Steve - Caça às focas #242 Марк и Стив - Охота на тюленя #242 Mark & Steve - Jakt på säl #242 Mark & Steve - Fok Avı #242 马克和史蒂夫 – 海豹狩猎

Mark:    Welcome back, again, to EnglishLingQ.

Steve:    Hello there.

Mark:    Mark here with Steve.

Having just read that spiel, it reminds me of the conference we were at last week where people weren't quite sure how to pronounce LingQ. ||||konuşma metni|||||||||||||||||||| ||||discurso|||||||||||||||||||| Acabo de leer esa perorata y me recuerda a la conferencia en la que estuvimos la semana pasada y en la que la gente no sabía muy bien cómo se pronunciaba LingQ. When I explained that, in fact, it was LingQ and not “Link You”, someone expressed disappointment. They thought Link You was a better name, because it links you, I guess.

Steve:    Right.

Mark:    Anyway, that was kind of interesting.

Steve:    By the way, since you're talking about that conference, I was very impressed; it was a conference here in Vancouver. People who have developed wireless or other applications to be used with wireless devices gave presentations. ||||wireless||||||||||| ||||inalámbrico||||||||||| They were all limited to three minutes and just about everyone stayed within the three minutes.

This is in contrast to a conference that I attended, because I now am a Director of the Canadian Council for the Americas Vancouver branch. |||||||||||||||Yönetici(1)||||Konsey|||||şubesi |||||||||||||||||||Consejo|||||sucursal de Vancouver Esto contrasta con una conferencia a la que asistí, porque ahora soy Director del Consejo Canadiense para las Américas filial Vancouver. There was a big conference about Canada and Latin America and they had ambassadors there, both ambassadors from those countries to Canada and some Canadian ambassadors who were on their way out there. |||||||||||||büyükelçiler||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||embajadores||||||||||||||||||| Let me say that they had a lot of trouble staying within their allotted time. |||||||||||||verilen| |||||||||||||asignado|

Mark:    Which was probably longer than three minutes.

Steve:    Which was much longer than three minutes and, so, the first group of four or five ambassadors got to hog a lot of the time. ||||||||||||||||||||zamanı kaplamak||||| ||||||||||||||||||||acaparar||||| Steve: Que era mucho más de tres minutos y, por lo tanto, el primer grupo de cuatro o cinco embajadores llegó a acaparar gran parte del tiempo. The one thing that was fixed was we had to get out of the room so that they could set, you know, the tables for dinner. |bir|||||||||||||||||||||||| Düzeltilen tek şey, akşam yemeği için masaları kurabilmeleri için odadan çıkmamız gerektiğiydi.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    So the first group just yapped on and on enough to hear themselves; you know all kinds of high-flying statements. ||||||gevezelik etti||||||||||||||| ||||||charlaban sin parar||||||||||||||| Steve: Así que el primer grupo sólo parloteaba y parloteaba lo suficiente como para oírse a sí mismos; ya sabes, todo tipo de declaraciones altisonantes. Then the next four countries, which were then Columbia and whatever, they had to stick to their time limit.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    But the first group, in love with what they had to say, was able to just waffle on. |||||||||||||||||divagar| Steve: Pero el primer grupo, enamorado de lo que tenía que decir, se limitó a divagar. Steve: Maar de eerste groep, verliefd op wat ze te zeggen hadden, kon gewoon doorpraten.

Mark:    Well and a great way of doing it, I thought, at that conference you were at.

Steve:    Yeah.

Mark:    All of a sudden, if people were going too long, there'd be some kind of a goofy audio clip of, you know, someone answering the phone or some voice saying something goofy. |||||||||||||||||silly||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||saçma||||||||||||||| That's your cue, it's over. ||sıra|| ||señal|| And most people wrapped it up pretty quickly after that. Y la mayoría de la gente lo terminó bastante rápido después de eso. There was one guy, maybe you missed that guy, but he kind of kept groaning on and looked annoyed. ||||||||||||||moaning|||| ||||||||||||||gimiendo|||| Había un tipo, tal vez te lo perdiste, pero no paraba de gruñir y parecía molesto. I'm like, actually, everybody else here is annoyed. You have no right to be annoyed. People aren't that interested in what you're saying, fit in your three minutes and sit down. Steve:    Well, besides, they have a great long list of people who want to speak.

Mark:    Exactly.

Steve:    It's not a matter of even…I think some of those ambassadors were interesting to listen to, but maybe the other group also had some things that were of interest, you know? But, I think it's a good idea to have it automatically timed like that because, otherwise, the Master of Ceremonies is always reluctant to interrupt his Excellency, you know, who's droning on about something. ||||||||||||||||||||||isteksiz||||Sayın||||konuşup duruyor||| |||||||||||cronometrado automáticamente|||||||||||Reacio a interrumpir||||Su Excelencia||||Hablando monótonamente||| Mark:    Exactly.

It's much more difficult to say, oh, excuse me, excuse me, your times up, rather than all of a sudden over the P.A. comes some goofy sound clip.

Steve:    I know. Anyway, you know I was thinking Mark, these podcasts of ours; we really are sort of contrarians. ||||||||||ours|||||| ||||||||||||||||karşıt görüşlüler ||||||||||||||||"contrarios" Hoe dan ook, je weet dat ik aan Mark dacht, deze podcasts van ons; we zijn echt tegendraads. We're always kind of “pooh-poohing”, as we say… ||||pooh|||| We zijn altijd een beetje aan het "poepen", zoals we zeggen... Mark:    That's true. Steve:    …some of the sort of conventional wisdoms. ||||||geleneksel|bilgeler |||||||sabidurías convencionales Steve: ...bazı geleneksel bilgelikler. And along that line…and I know you have some things you want to talk about, but I just wanted to mention…I was reading in the paper this morning that the seasonal flu that every year we get here… |||bu bağlamda||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …during flu season is much more contagious, apparently, than the so-called Swine Flu. |||||||bulaşıcı|||||||

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    And there's nothing special about Swine Flu because we have been getting flu from swine and other animals for a long, long time. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    So this whole…  From what I gather, if this is correct, and certainly in terms of the number of people who die every year from flu, it's a large number. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    And the Swine Flu hasn't come any where… ||||||||hiçbir yere Domuz gribi de hiçbir yere gelmedi. Mark:    Well, no one has died from it in Canada anyway.

Steve:    Not in Canada, so…  I mean it's just another example of how things are just hyped out of all proportion and, in the end, as they pointed out in the newspaper, if, as a result of this, economic activity in Mexico comes to a grinding halt, tourism is killed off, people don't go there, that's going to cost them a lot of money. ||||||||||||||||exaggerated||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||durumudur||abartılıyor||||orantısız şekilde|||||||||||||||||||||||||durdurucu bir|||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||exageradas|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||paralización total|paralización total||||||||||||||||| Steve: Kanada'da değil, yani... Demek istediğim, olayların nasıl abartıldığının bir başka örneği ve sonuçta, gazetede de belirtildiği gibi, bunun sonucunda Meksika'daki ekonomik faaliyetler durursa, turizm ölürse, insanlar oraya gitmezse, bu onlara çok paraya mal olacak. And so people are going to suffer economically and typically the people who suffer the most are the poor people. |||||||económicamente|||||||||||| If they suffer economically their health will suffer, so probably the fallout from the Swine Flu will end up having worse health effects and probably leading to the premature death of more people than the Swine Flu itself. |||||||||||fallout|||||||||||||||||premature||||||||| |||||||||||sonuçları|||||||||||||||||erken||||||||| |||||||||||repercusiones|||||||||||||||||||||||||| Eğer ekonomik olarak zarar görürlerse sağlıkları da zarar görecektir, dolayısıyla muhtemelen Domuz Gribinden kaynaklanan serpinti daha kötü sağlık etkilerine yol açacak ve muhtemelen Domuz Gribinin kendisinden daha fazla insanın erken ölümüne neden olacaktır.

Mark:    That's probably true. I think with regard to – whatever you want to call it – the normal flu or the seasonal flu, the people most affected by the seasonal flu are the elderly, I believe, and maybe young children. |||ilgili|||||||||||||||||||||||||yaşlılar|||||| ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||ancianos|||||| I don't know that for a fact, but I know that it's the elderly and that's why they always encourage the elderly to get flu shots in flu season; whereas, I think partly what's got people's fears aroused in Mexico is that it's not the elderly at all, it's relatively young adults. |||||||||||||||||||||||||vaccinations||||||||||||raised|||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||grip||||||||||uyandırdı|||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||||||vacunas contra la gripe||||||||||||despertado|||||||||||||| No lo sé a ciencia cierta, pero sé que son los ancianos y por eso siempre se anima a los ancianos a vacunarse contra la gripe en temporada de gripe; en cambio, creo que en parte lo que ha despertado los temores de la gente en México es que no se trata en absoluto de ancianos, sino de adultos relativamente jóvenes. Twenty to 40 or something is the age group that seems to be most affected, so maybe that's partly the reason. It's obviously out of the norm for the seasonal flu, anyway. Steve:    And the problem, to be fair, too, is that if people think that there is a chance that something like a pandemic is about to happen it's always best to err on the side of caution. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||caution |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||hata yapmak|||||temkinli olmak ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||precaución Mark:    Absolutely and the fact that Mexico City, it sounds like, came to a grinding halt there for a while. ||||||||||||||complete stop||||| ||||||||||||||tamamen durdu|durdu|||| Mark: Kesinlikle ve Mexico City'nin bir süreliğine durma noktasına gelmiş olması. I don't know if it's still like that, but it could have reduced the spread. Steve:    Yeah, we don't know. Mark:    Not being on expert on the spread of diseases, you go by what you read and hear.

Steve:    I gather a bus load of Canadian students arrived in Beijing and were promptly put into quarantine. ||duyduğuma göre||||||||||||hemen||| |||||carga|||||||||inmediatamente|||cuarentena Steve: Tengo entendido que un autobús lleno de estudiantes canadienses llegó a Pekín y fue puesto rápidamente en cuarentena.

Mark:    Not in Beijing, it was somewhere in Northern China.

Steve:    In China. And, of course, being in China, you know, access…like the Embassy is only allowed to see them for 10 minutes. |||||||||||Büyükelçilik|sadece||||||| You can just see that it's a major kafuffle. ||||||||kargaşa ||||||||gran lío Je kunt gewoon zien dat het een grote kafuffle is. Mark:    That's the greatest. The Embassy is only allowed to meet with them for 10 minutes and they must take their temperature three times a day and record it every day for a week. Anyway, it just all sounds pretty funny.

Steve:    On the other hand, when there was a massive sort of tidal wave of poisonous chemicals moving towards some town in North China nobody announced it because nobody really wanted to be, you know, on the hook and, hopefully, it might stop. ||||||||||||gelgit||||||||||||kimse|||||||||||sorumlulukta||||||| ||||||||||||oleada de marea|||químicos tóxicos||||||||||||||||||||||en apuros||||| Steve: Por otro lado, cuando se produjo una especie de marejada masiva de productos químicos venenosos que se dirigía hacia alguna ciudad del norte de China, nadie lo anunció porque nadie quería estar, ya sabes, en el anzuelo y, con suerte, podría detenerse.

Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    Anyway…  Now they're going after these Canadians, so that's good. |||onlar||||||| That's good, they won't infect anyone. ||||infectar| Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    Anyway…

Mark:    Another topic that's been in the news a lot in Canada recently is this banning of the seal hunt, which probably doesn't rate in most other countries as a news item. ||||||||||||||||||fok|fok avı||||önem derecesi|önemli|çoğu|||||| Although, I guess there are a lot of places where the anti seal hunt propaganda machine has got their message out. I must be honest, I can't recall the last time I saw a product made from seal skin. ||||||hatırlamak||||||||||fok| ||||||recordar||||||||||| Steve:    Right.

Mark:    I mean I guess they used to use seal skins for cross-country skiing to climb up hillsides, but, I don't know. ||||||||||||||||||hillsides|||| ||||||||||||||||||laderas|||| Steve:    I think one of the major products is…

Mark:    I think those are synthetic now.

Steve:    Yeah.

I think you have these cute mascots that are sold in Canadian souvenir stores that are made in China and they might be made of seal skin. ||||||mascots|||||||||||||||||||| ||||||maskotlar|||||||||||||||||||| ||||||mascotas adorables||||||recuerdo canadiense|||||||||||||| Ik denk dat je deze schattige mascottes hebt die worden verkocht in Canadese souvenirwinkels die in China zijn gemaakt en die mogelijk van zeehondenhuid zijn gemaakt.

Mark:    That could be.

Steve:    But it's a fur, it's a fur. |||||||piel I guess there are people who wear…maybe it's a lining for something, I don't know. ||||||||||astarı||||| ||||||||||forro||||| Supongo que hay gente que lleva... quizá sea un forro para algo, no lo sé. Sanırım giyinen insanlar var... belki de bir şey için astar, bilmiyorum. Mark:    Apparently a third of their market is in Europe, so obviously there are Europeans that buy this stuff. But, then, I guess…  I mean, personally, whether they hunt seals or not, it's not on my radar, it doesn't bother me either way, but it does bother me when a government body does not allow you. |||||||||||||||||radar||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||en mi radar||||||||||||||||||| Steve:    Right.

Mark:    You are not allowed to buy seal skin.

Steve:    Right.

Mark:    Well, why not? What's wrong with seal skin? Steve:    Well, I mean the argument is that it looks very cruel because you have these cute little seal pups going “oink, oink, oink” and then some mean old guy comes up and just whacks them over the head and takes their pelt and doesn't use, you know, the meat for anything. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||hits||||||||skin||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||fok|yavru foklar|||||||||||||||vuruyor||||||||postu||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||cachorros de foca||||||||cruel|||||||golpea||||||||piel de foca||||||||| So if a person wants to make the personal decision not to buy a seal skin product then I can perfectly understand that.

Mark:    Absolutely.

Steve:    I would recommend that anyone who eats chicken never ever go to a chicken farm or a place where they pluck and slaughter and then prepare chickens for our table, because that looks pretty revolting too. |||||||||||||||||||||||slaughter||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||tüylerini yolma||kesim yapar||||||||||||tiksinç| |||||||||||||||||||||despluman||matan||||||||||||repugnante|

Mark:    Well that's what I was going to say. I mean what about all the cattle that are slaughtered that live in cramped conditions and, you know, not necessarily pleasant conditions? |||||||||slaughtered|||||||||||| |||||||||||||sıkışık|||||||| ||||||ganado bovino|||sacrificados||||hacinadas||||||||

Steve:    Right.

Mark:    All the poultry and… |||tavukçuluk| |||aves de corral|

Steve:    It's horrible, actually. Mark:    It's pretty horrible. And so what's worse, that or the way the seals are clubbed? |||||||||||sopalarla vuruluyor |||||||||||apaleados I mean who's to say? ||kim|kimse| Steve:    Well, exactly. And the other thing is, on the positive side…although they do have an image problem, they do have an image problem. But, on the positive side, apparently the seal population has been expanding and we see it here on the west coast. They have no predators, there are just more and more seals and the seals eat a lot of fish. |||predators||||||||||||||| That's what they do. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    They eat fish. Again, I'm not a fisheries expert, but apparently the argument is that controlling the seals is good for our cod stocks. ||||fisheries|||||||||||||||cod| ||||balıkçılık||||||||||foklar||iyi|||mezgit| ||||pesquerías|||||||||||||||bacalao| Mark:    Right.

Steve:    Now should humans be intervening in these things? |||||müdahale etmesi||| |||||interviniendo||| I mean we do inevitably anyway and humans are part of the predatory cycle… ||||kaçınılmaz olarak|yine de|||||||avcı|

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …part of the food chain. So, I don't know. Mark:    I don't know either, but I guess it's a bit like…for a long time the forest industry was the poster child for all the Greenpeace, save a tree, hug a tree and all this and the seal hunt business is a similar poster child. |||||||||||||||||||||örnek|||||Yeşil Barış||||ağaçları kucakla||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||||ejemplo emblemático|||||Greenpeace||||||||||||||||||| Steve:    Right.

Mark:    You know Paul McCartney and his wife were out there parading around in Zodiacs, which gives, obviously, this big PR boost to the whole seal hunt thing; otherwise, people wouldn't even know about it. |||||||||||parading||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||oradaydı||||||Zodyaklar|||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||desfilando||||||||||||||||||||||| Mark: Paul McCartney ve eşinin Zodiac'larla dolaştığını biliyorsunuz, bu da fok avı olayına büyük bir halkla ilişkiler desteği sağlıyor; aksi takdirde insanların bundan haberi bile olmazdı. Steve:    Right.

Mark:    It just happens in Newfoundland, I mean… |||||Newfoundland|| |||||Terranova||

Steve:    Well, that's right. To me, of all the sort of injustices that take place on this planet, it doesn't rank very high. |||||||injusticias|||||||||ocupa un lugar|| Para mí, de todo el tipo de injusticias que tienen lugar en este planeta, no ocupa un lugar muy alto. On the other hand, the fur industry, in general, is regularly sort of attacked. |||||||||||||attacked

Mark:    Harassed. |Harassed |Acosado. Mark: Acosado.

Steve:    Most of the people involved in the fur industry in Canada are quite poor. They live up north, many of them are natives. They have trap lines; this is their means of livelihood. |||||||||source of income ||líneas de trampa|||||||medio de vida Tienen líneas de trampas; este es su medio de vida. It's a way of life, it's their culture. And I am quite convinced that furs are just about the most environmentally-benign clothing material that there is,   because most cotton is grown in massive monoculture plantations… |||||||||||||çevre dostu|||||||||||||monokültür|plantasyonlarında |||||||||||||||||||||algodón|||||monocultivo masivo|

Mark:    Lots of fertilizer, I'm sure. Steve:    …with lots of fertilizer flowing into their water system…

Mark:    …and pesticides.

Steve:    Not to mention the synthetic fibers, which are part of a nonrenewal industry, which is the petroleum industry. ||||||lifler||||||yenilenemez|||||| ||||||||||||no renovable|||||| Steve: Om nog maar te zwijgen van de synthetische vezels, die deel uitmaken van een niet-vernieuwende industrie, namelijk de aardolie-industrie. So, furs, as long as it's handled in a sustainable way, I think it's great. |||||||||eco-friendly||||| ||||||ele alınır|||||||| What I do like about the fur protestors is that you sometimes get very attractive women parading around naked to protest, you know, and they're welcome to come and do that outside my office here, I think that's great! ||||||||||||||||parading|||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||manifestantes contra la piel||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Mark:    It certainly is a very effective method.

Steve:    Well, yeah, they can also carry posters promoting LingQ while they're doing it, you know? Mark:    Yeah, I mean I know that whole PETA. I don't know what it stands for, but the anti-fur lobby, I don't understand it. |||||||||||grupo de presión|||| Why? I mean people have been wearing furs forever and, as you say, it's completely renewable. ||||||||||||||yenilenebilir ||||||||||||||renovable Yes, you know it's no different than how the food appears on your table; something had to die for the food to appear on your table. Something had to die for your fur coat, but why that's a crime and has to be so vehemently protested against, I must say, I don't understand, especially, as you point out, because it's probably environmentally more friendly than just about any other type of clothing. |||||||||||||||||||protested|||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||şiddetle||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||con vehemencia|protestado enérgicamente|||||||||||||||||||||||||| Steve:    Right.

Now I have nothing against a person who finds it cruel and doesn't want to use seals or fur or anything else… Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …people make their own decisions, but for the government to ban it I think is just silly. But speaking of furs, I'm reminded of the story when you were playing hockey. You've heard the story, but I think it might be fun for some our listeners. You were playing hockey for Yale and, of course, Yale has a team in this Ivy League, which is this sort of elite American University League.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    So your mother and I came down to watch you play and you were playing at this one college and, of course, we're surrounded by all these Ivy League students and, of course, your mother had on a fur coat. |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||abrigo de piel|abrigo de piel Steve: Así que tu madre y yo fuimos a verte jugar y estabas jugando en esta universidad y, por supuesto, estábamos rodeados de todos estos estudiantes de la Ivy League y, por supuesto, tu madre llevaba un abrigo de piel. So the student sitting beside your mother made some comment about the fur coat and, of course, as you know, your mom doesn't take this lying down, so to speak, and she said, “Oh yeah? ||||||||||||||||||||||||bunu|||||||||| Así que el estudiante que estaba sentado al lado de tu madre hizo un comentario sobre el abrigo de piel y, por supuesto, como ya sabes, tu madre no se toma esto a la ligera, por así decirlo, y dijo: "¿Ah, sí? Annenizin yanında oturan öğrenci kürk manto hakkında bir yorum yaptı ve tabii ki, bildiğiniz gibi, anneniz tabiri caizse, bu tür şeyleri kabullenmez ve "Öyle mi? Do you eat meat?”  So the American student said, “No.”  And she said, “You lie. Of course you eat meat, that's why you're so fat! That's why all Americans are fat!” she said. Mark:    Oh, well...

Steve:    At this point that was unfair, but, yeah, it's unfair. At this point I withdrew. ||||çekildim ||||me retiré I ran up a few steps, I didn't want to be there for this. |||||escalones|||||||| Subí corriendo unos escalones, no quería estar allí para esto. But the point is this, that, yeah, the way we deal…and maybe we should be, I don't know, more humane, but where do you draw the line? ||||||||||||||||||||insani|||||||sınır ||||||||||||||||||||más compasivos||||||| I mean, I don't know. Mark:    The whole humane thing I think is just silly. People are animals and we prey on smaller animals. |||||prey||| |||||depredamos a||| We're fortunate that we don't have to worry about being preyed upon, most of the time, by other animals, but we're part of the food chain and that's the way it's always been and the way it always will be. şanslıyız|şanslıyız|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||depredados por||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Steve:    Right.

I guess, again, the distinction… ||||ayrım

Mark:    Carrying on about it…I just don't…  As you say, personal preference, that's fine, you do what you like, but don't try and tell me or others how to behave. Mark: Siguiendo con el tema... Yo simplemente no... Como tú dices, preferencia personal, está bien, haz lo que quieras, pero no intentes decirme a mí o a los demás cómo comportarnos. Steve:    But, you know this is the point, too, that I guess some people criticize the fact that they kill the seals and don't eat the meat. But it reminds me, too, I was reading somewhere that someone was saying that their 11-year-old daughter is a vegetarian. I mean that's pretty bad. Mark:    Well, that's pretty bad, yeah. Steve:    Because an 11 year old has been totally influenced by her teacher, by someone else.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    And I don't think being a vegetarian is that healthy for you when you're young. Mark:    No.

Steve:    Because we need the protein and we need other things that come from the meat. Now an adult can make his or her own decisions and may supplement or whatever, but for an 11 year old to be a vegetarian, I think that's pretty bad. Mark:    Right.

Well, absolutely.

Steve:    Yeah.

Mark:    I mean, obviously, if the parents are of that persuasion… ||||||||||görüşte ||||||||||tendencia

Steve:    No, they aren't. Mark:    They're not? Steve:    No, no, no, they're quite concerned. They think she picked it up at school or maybe she, you know...  Because there's all kinds of now subliminal messaging in all the games that they get about planting trees and being a vegetarian and she didn't want to kill an animal and all this kind of stuff. |||||||||||||||||||subliminal||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||subliminales||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Piensan que lo aprendió en el colegio o quizás, ya sabes... Porque ahora hay todo tipo de mensajes subliminales en todos los juegos que reciben sobre plantar árboles y ser vegetariano y ella no quería matar a un animal y todo este tipo de cosas. Mark:    Yeah, I know.

Steve:    We kill animals.

Mark:    Exactly.

Steve:    For millions of years humans and their predecessors have been killing animals. ||||||||predecesores||||

Mark:    And there are still lots of animals around.

Steve:    I know. Anyway, we shouldn't get…we always get back to environmentalism. What else have you got on the agenda?

Mark:    The only other thing that's, again, of note in Canada is that one of the cofounders of Blackberry, which is a hand-held phone that's been very successful, they want to buy a hockey team in Phoenix and move it to… ||||||||||||||||kurucularından biri||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||de importancia||||||||cofundadores de Blackberry||||||||||||||||||||||||| Steve:    A professional hockey team.

Mark:    …southern Ontario. And that's big news in Canada where hockey, of course, is king. What's interesting is that this team was originally a Canadian-based team. It was in Winnipeg and it moved down to Phoenix about, I don't know, 15 years ago, I don't know how long it's been, but it's never done very well in Phoenix which, not surprisingly, is not much of a hockey hotbed. ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||buz hokeyi merkezi ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||centro neurálgico Het was in Winnipeg en het verhuisde naar Phoenix ongeveer, ik weet het niet, 15 jaar geleden, ik weet niet hoe lang het geleden is, maar het is nooit erg goed gedaan in Phoenix, wat, niet verrassend, niet echt een hockey broeinest. Steve:    The Sunbelt. ||Güneş Kuşağı ||El Sunbelt

Mark:    They've been losing lots of money and apparently they're going into bankruptcy and so this guy has offered to step in and buy it and move it. ||||||||||||bancarrota||||||||||||||| Mark: Han estado perdiendo mucho dinero y al parecer van a declararse en quiebra, así que este tipo se ha ofrecido a comprarlo y trasladarlo. I guess it's a big story, too, because the NHL ownership… Steve:    The NHL is the National Hockey League.

Mark:    …for a long time has been trying to push this idea of hockey teams in the southern United States or in the Sunbelt to try and spread the game to increase the audience. A lot of people in Canada feel that the League sort of takes for granted its fan base in Canada and is far too focused on markets where people just aren't interested. ||||||||||||||kabul ediyor||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||aficionados||||||||||||||| Steve:    I mean it's an interesting point, because to Canadians they almost feel that they have a right because hockey is so popular in Canada and so many players come from Canada and for the longest period Canada was the main hockey nation. I mean hockey has spread; it's spread a lot in Europe. Mark:    Right.

Steve:    We see a lot of teams now, very competitive teams, from places like Latvia, obviously Finland. Finland, which 20-30 years ago wasn't that competitive, now very strongly beat Canada recently in the World Cup match; although, that's not over yet. Hungary I see was there, Switzerland is now strong, Germany and so forth, so it's been successful in Europe. They've tried to spread it into the southern part of the United States. Part of the problem is that out of…how many teams are there in the League?

Mark:    Thirty, maybe.

Steve:    Thirty teams; there's only four or, whatever, six Canadian teams. Mark:    Six.

Steve:    So the majority of the owners are Americans and they would rather see Columbus, Ohio or you know Chicago or Philadelphia come to town than a team from Kitchener-Waterloo... ||||||||||||||Columbus Ohio|Ohio||||||||||||||| Steve: Yani takım sahiplerinin çoğu Amerikalı ve Kitchener-Waterloo'dan bir takımın şehre gelmesindense Columbus, Ohio ya da Chicago veya Philadelphia'nın gelmesini tercih ediyorlar...

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    …which nobody would be able to find on a map. So in terms of their product, from a strictly business point of view, they don't want a bunch of Canadian teams because that's going to make it more difficult to sell the product in their area. Fine, yet they haven't been successful. Those teams are dying in those places like Phoenix and Nashville. How's it doing in Nashville? Mark:    Not very well, they almost folded a couple of years ago. ||||||collapsed||||| ||||||katlandılar||||| ||||||cerraron||||| This same guy tried to buy the Nashville team and he wasn't allowed. Steve:    But it is a business. So, to that extent, it's not a matter of national interest, it's a matter of business. Mark:    Well, absolutely not. But the thing is, like Phoenix, they say they've lost something like $200 million over the last 10 years or something. Steve:    Wow.

Mark:    I mean they lose $20 million a year because their rink is empty and there's no television money for hockey in the U.S. ||||||||||rink||||||||||||| Steve:    But is there opposition now to moving the team to Canada?

Mark:    Well, from the Commission of the League. ||||Comisión de la Liga|||

Steve:    Which means, presumably, he represents a majority of the owners.

Mark:    Presumably he represents the owners. |||||sahipleri I wouldn't be surprised if the Toronto Maple Leafs are resistant as well… ||||||||Kalkınma Takımı|||| Toronto Maple Leafs de direnirse hiç şaşırmam... Steve:    Right.

Now...

Mark:    …because they've, up until now, had that whole southern Ontario market to themselves. I mean I guess it would affect their revenue slightly, maybe, but I mean they're, if not the richest franchise, one of the top two. |||||||||||||||||||franchise||||| ||||||||gelirlerini|||||||||||||||| |||||||||||||||||||franquicia||||| I mean their rink is full.

Steve:    But if they can get away with it and protect the market.

Mark:    Right.

Steve:    So the League as a League has to make a decision. Canadians get all upset and nationalistic over it, I just think it's a business decision and the majority of their owners have to decide what they think is in their interest, that's all. Mark:    Right, right.

Steve:    But you know it reminds me of this other issue that I mentioned once on my blog, which was the issue over…  How much time do we have?

Mark:    I think that's probably enough. Steve:    Alright. So I won't get into that subject then. Mark:    No.

Steve:    We'll save that for next time. Mark:    Yeah.

Steve:    Okay.

Mark:    Okay, talk to you later. Mark|||||

Steve:    Okay.

Mark:    Bye-bye.

Steve:    Bye.